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Slouppi • View topic - Finnish grades

Slouppi

Rock climbing and Bouldering in Finland
It is currently Wed Sep 18, 2019 02:51

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2003 09:54 
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Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2001 02:00
Posts: 228
Location: Helsinki
Let´s get rid of the + and - also, then. After all, what´s adding and subtracting got to do with climbing?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2003 11:31 
What if we get rid of the numbers, too? I heard Sharma doesn't grade his routes so why should we either?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2003 11:39 
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Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2002 02:00
Posts: 86
Location: Grani
irony doesnt work well in a forum.

My opinion is that we should give the grades in the new book a chance, and to the ones who made it: your work is appreciated!
However if the grades are a mess, and a change to french scale would be better i agree that should be done in the next version of the book.

regards,
erik


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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2003 11:50 
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Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2002 02:00
Posts: 216
Location: Vantaa
A number of people have said things a long the lines of 'the grades are a mess' but no one has really said why. I don't have an opinion above grade 6 but from 4 to 6 (are there any route easier than 4 in Finland?!) they work just fine. They are no more or less of a mess than UK, French, Norwegian, US or alpine grades I've used.

None of that was ironic BTW - perhaps we need an ironic smilie thing...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Toby on 2003-05-27 12:50 ]</font>


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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2003 12:12 
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Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2001 02:00
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Location: Helsinki
The Finnish grading system currently "ends" at about 8- (around 7b), and all harder routes have French grades. On "new" crags like Falkberget all routes have French grades.


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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2003 13:26 
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Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2002 02:00
Posts: 36
Location: Kulosaari
The trend (as long as i can see!) seems to be to start grading things with the french system. Most likely there wont be a need to force the change as it will happen by itself. Progress is inevitable and soon most places in finland will be graded by the french grade. A nice step would be to put french grades along with the finnish ones in old topos and new ones should be french only. I hate this whole 'lets keep our own grading system' idea, it just adds to confusion, especially now that the climbing community is becoming so international.


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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2003 14:04 
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Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2002 02:00
Posts: 216
Location: Vantaa
Quote:
A nice step would be to put french grades along with the finnish ones in old topos and new ones should be french only. I hate this whole 'lets keep our own grading system' idea, it just adds to confusion, especially now that the climbing community is becoming so international.


People seem to always think that French grades are the answer to everything - but Spanish grades are meant to be a bit different still. German, Australian, American, British and Swedish grades are all completely different... I don't think that climbing is THAT international that we need one grading system. Why is there any advantage in grading for example Olhava with French grades to the existing Finnish one? I don't see any really? French grades tell you no more about pro then Finnish grades - perhaps they can tell a bit more about sustainedness but thats it really. It's never going to be an exact science...


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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2003 14:42 
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Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2001 02:00
Posts: 333
Location: nybacka - uusmäki
yep. it'll never be totally comparable between countries or even between areas. in the future people will just get confused with finnish 7a not being the same as spanish 7a.


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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2003 16:36 
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Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 02:00
Posts: 75
Quote:
On 2003-05-27 15:04, Toby wrote:
French grades tell you no more about pro then Finnish grades


I far as I understand nobody has suggested using the french scale for all routes only those that are fully bolted. Therefore the grade would tell something about the protection i.e. its all bolted.
Why I believe the finnish grades are a mess is not that I think they are useless just that within the finnish climbing guide they were used to grade everything from 2m boulder problems to 30m+ trade routes. The finnish grading system is being spread over so much bread that it is running the risk of being pointless. Why not have french for bolts, finnish grades for trad and mixed, and something else for bouldering. I know that is how I work it in my mind.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jody on 2003-05-27 17:42 ]</font>


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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2003 07:51 
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Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2002 02:00
Posts: 34
Location: Helsinki, Jyväskylä
Boulder problems are graded with the Font system apart from the old problems that use the Finnish system. Routes are graded with the French grade when they are not graded with the new or the old Finnish system. Confusing?

Not at all if you start using my system aptly named as the Suggestion-system: "If I can't do it there must be a grading misprint in the guide".

Works so well for me. Well, a huge amount of misprints but that surely is not my fault. Fix the guides! Pronto!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2003 13:56 
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Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2002 02:00
Posts: 216
Location: Vantaa
Quote:
within the finnish climbing guide they were used to grade everything from 2m boulder problems to 30m+ trade routes.


Finnish route grades and bouldering grades are not the same, they just look the same. But just wait to you've been spanked by a boulder problem that claims to be 4+. Just to add to the amusement, Finnish bouldering grades (Helsinki) seem to differ quite a lot from Finnish bouldering grades (Turku) - but they speak funny over there anyway so who cares :wink:

Until you can climb something worthy of Font grade (don't expect I ever will), with bouldering I would stick to the grades "can", can't" and "might in a few months". Alternatively ignore the actual problems and give grades to comedy value of friends' attempts at the problems - humerous facial expression or landing on your arse gets you an extra grade...

More seriously french grades for all sports routes does seem sensible - but it does mean that as some one else pointed out you will have two systems on one cliff as virtually all cliffs have a mix of route types.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2003 14:43 
And mixed grades cause problems since grades are usually in line only on cliff only and two grading systems would ruin this last piece of harmony, too. For example 6+ in Helsinki gets usually 5+ here in Tampere. I don't know how our grades correspond to Turku since I don't understand the language there. :smile:

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sampsa J. on 2003-05-28 15:44 ]</font>


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2003 17:56 
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Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 02:00
Posts: 75
OK I admit defeat. I will just have to learn to love the peculiarities of the finnish grading system like I would a long-term girlfriend. I also take back what I said about a route on Vanjärvi, the new guide book has corrected the mistake, Superhiiva is now route 18 and therefore route 17 (nyt manna ja lasa) is no longer a bloody hard 5-.
Being wrong twice is tough but I will live to fight another day.


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