Deprecated: Function set_magic_quotes_runtime() is deprecated in /var/www/customers/klippi/public_html/phpBB3/common.php on line 106
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/session.php on line 160: htmlspecialchars(): charset `iso8859-10' not supported, assuming utf-8
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/session.php on line 87: htmlspecialchars(): charset `iso8859-10' not supported, assuming utf-8
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/session.php on line 129: htmlspecialchars(): charset `iso8859-10' not supported, assuming utf-8
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/session.php on line 130: htmlspecialchars(): charset `iso8859-10' not supported, assuming utf-8
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/session.php on line 214: htmlspecialchars(): charset `iso8859-10' not supported, assuming utf-8
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/session.php on line 916: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /common.php:106)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/session.php on line 916: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /common.php:106)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/session.php on line 916: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /common.php:106)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/session.php on line 1454: htmlspecialchars(): charset `iso8859-10' not supported, assuming utf-8

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /var/www/customers/klippi/public_html/phpBB3/includes/bbcode.php on line 472

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /var/www/customers/klippi/public_html/phpBB3/includes/bbcode.php on line 472

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /var/www/customers/klippi/public_html/phpBB3/includes/bbcode.php on line 472

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /var/www/customers/klippi/public_html/phpBB3/includes/bbcode.php on line 472

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /var/www/customers/klippi/public_html/phpBB3/includes/bbcode.php on line 472

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /var/www/customers/klippi/public_html/phpBB3/includes/bbcode.php on line 472

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /var/www/customers/klippi/public_html/phpBB3/includes/bbcode.php on line 472

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /var/www/customers/klippi/public_html/phpBB3/includes/bbcode.php on line 472

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /var/www/customers/klippi/public_html/phpBB3/includes/bbcode.php on line 472

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /var/www/customers/klippi/public_html/phpBB3/includes/bbcode.php on line 472

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /var/www/customers/klippi/public_html/phpBB3/includes/bbcode.php on line 472

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /var/www/customers/klippi/public_html/phpBB3/includes/bbcode.php on line 472

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /var/www/customers/klippi/public_html/phpBB3/includes/bbcode.php on line 472

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /var/www/customers/klippi/public_html/phpBB3/includes/bbcode.php on line 472

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /var/www/customers/klippi/public_html/phpBB3/includes/bbcode.php on line 472

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /var/www/customers/klippi/public_html/phpBB3/includes/bbcode.php on line 472

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /var/www/customers/klippi/public_html/phpBB3/includes/bbcode.php on line 472

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /var/www/customers/klippi/public_html/phpBB3/includes/bbcode.php on line 472

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /var/www/customers/klippi/public_html/phpBB3/includes/bbcode.php on line 472

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /var/www/customers/klippi/public_html/phpBB3/includes/bbcode.php on line 472

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /var/www/customers/klippi/public_html/phpBB3/includes/bbcode.php on line 472

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /var/www/customers/klippi/public_html/phpBB3/includes/bbcode.php on line 472

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /var/www/customers/klippi/public_html/phpBB3/includes/bbcode.php on line 472

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /var/www/customers/klippi/public_html/phpBB3/includes/bbcode.php on line 472

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /var/www/customers/klippi/public_html/phpBB3/includes/bbcode.php on line 472

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /var/www/customers/klippi/public_html/phpBB3/includes/bbcode.php on line 472

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /var/www/customers/klippi/public_html/phpBB3/includes/bbcode.php on line 112

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /var/www/customers/klippi/public_html/phpBB3/includes/bbcode.php on line 112

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /var/www/customers/klippi/public_html/phpBB3/includes/bbcode.php on line 112

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /var/www/customers/klippi/public_html/phpBB3/includes/bbcode.php on line 112

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /var/www/customers/klippi/public_html/phpBB3/includes/bbcode.php on line 112

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /var/www/customers/klippi/public_html/phpBB3/includes/bbcode.php on line 112

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /var/www/customers/klippi/public_html/phpBB3/includes/bbcode.php on line 112

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /var/www/customers/klippi/public_html/phpBB3/includes/bbcode.php on line 112

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /var/www/customers/klippi/public_html/phpBB3/includes/bbcode.php on line 112

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /var/www/customers/klippi/public_html/phpBB3/includes/bbcode.php on line 112
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions.php on line 3529: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /common.php:106)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions.php on line 3531: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /common.php:106)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions.php on line 3532: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /common.php:106)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions.php on line 3533: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /common.php:106)
Slouppi • View topic - Sulkurengas murtui, tontti tomähti

Slouppi

Rock climbing and Bouldering in Finland
It is currently Thu Apr 25, 2019 01:49

All times are UTC + 2 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 19:39 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 02:00
Posts: 3
maailmanlaajuisesti on harvinaista, että onnettomuus tapahtuu puhtaasti kiipeilijän oman virheen takia.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 20:39 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 02:00
Posts: 20
kiipeilijän virhe on siis tässä tapauksessa yksinomaan se, ettei saanut topattua reittiä.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 09:07 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2002 02:00
Posts: 132
Location: Helsinki
Viitsitkö, lipevä kieli, jakaa tietämystäsi muillekin ja kertoa mikä se Pertun virhe mielestäsi oli? Ettei tule vaan itse tehtyä samaa virhettä.

Putoaminen tietysti oli Pertun virhe, mutta entäs ne seuraukset.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 21:50 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2002 02:00
Posts: 58
Location: Helsinki
Mun käsityksen mukaan taas on harvinaista että onnettomuus sattuu välineen rikkoutumisen takia. (Ja sit niistä kuulee kuitenkin aina ensimmäiseksi)
Useimmiten on ihmisen syytä, että kamat irtoo seinästä tai köysi on väärin kiinni. Eikö?
Mä en vaan näe mitään inhimillistä erhettä siinä että sulkkari murtuu.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:26 
Suhteellisen harvinainen tapaus, muttei mahdoton...

Over the last few years I have heard of a couple of incidents of
unclippings of Hotwires and other styles. From these reports there is no
trend that the Hotwire is any easier to unclip than any other style. But
this is not proof either. Unclipping of biners occurrs about as often as
biners break. i.e. I have heard of about 12 in 5 years. I am sure I
have not heard of all of them though.

Chris Harmston (chrish@bdel.com).
Quality Assurance Manager. Materials Engineer BS, ME.
Black Diamond Equipment Ltd.
2084 East 3900 South, SLC, UT 84124 phone: 801-278-5552



Subject: Re: ALERT! -- DMM/Mamba: Possible 'biner failure
From: Chris Harmston <chrish@bdel.com>
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:18:49 -0600

On Thu, 15 Apr 1999, ezClimber wrote:

>If a climber buys something that should not break below 10KN according to
>its label, but a 2KN fall breaks it, does that make the buyer stupid?
>Cowardly? A whiner?

Now this is where I dissagree. It is very possible to break biners (good
ones) well below their rating. Ratings are generated by testing between
two 12 mm steel pins seated against the spine of the biner. The closer
the loading is to the nose of the biner (closer to the gate) then the
weaker it will be and it can easily fail below the rating. Loading a
biner with its nose hook on a bolt hanger can break it under body weight
even though it has an open gate rating of 7 kN. In closed gate, biners
break below their ratings when tested with slings because the sling
applies more load to the nose than to the spine (in comparison to steel
pins). 1" slings will cause biners to break weaker than 1/2" slings
(assuming the biner breaks first--which usually happens by the way). Much
of this type of information is also supplied with carabiner instruction
tags.

In this situation we are talking about we do not yet know if the failure
was open gate or closed gate. It is easy to tell by the deformation
associated with the parts. If the nose was bent in toward the spine then
it was closed gate, if the nose was bent out then it was open gate.
Assuming the biner failed in open gate then it is very possible that this
carabiner broke because the load was too high for the specific loading
geometry not because there was a defect. The fall you are talking about
is not a totally soft fall. Repeated falls on the same rope, only 30
feet of rope, belayer yanking in slack and locking off the belay
(assumption on my part because this is what most belayers do when they
are faced with repeated scary falls), etc. can all result in high force
falls even though the fall factor was low. What if the biner had been
shifted and loaded in minor axis? It is not uncommon for biners to break
below their rating and even the example of the biner breaking at 2 kN when
rated at 10 is not impossible (with or without a defect).

If the biner failed in closed gate then I would have a very hard time
believing that the force exceded 15 to 25 kN even in this situation as
described. To fail in closed gate I believe there would have to be a
defect involved in the biner (or minor axis loading could have
contributed to it). Hard to say without seeing it myself.

What happened to the biner after it broke? How much time was there
between the fall and the analysis now going on? Was there any chance that
part of the fracture surface came into contact with water? How have the
surfaces been protected from contact with anything?

>This piece of pro was placed in textbook-ideal conditions (welded cold-shut
>and all). It failed on a low-factor fall with more than 30 feet of rope out.
>Thanks again.
>ez

Chris Harmston (chrish@bdel.com).
Quality Assurance Manager. Materials Engineer BS, ME.
Black Diamond Equipment Ltd.
2084 East 3900 South, SLC, UT 84124 phone: 801-278-5552


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:40 
Offline

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2003 02:00
Posts: 27
Campin kanssa lopputulos on toistaiseksi ollut laiha. Olivat pahoillaan tapahtuneesta. Tutkiakseen paremmin tuon failuren heidän olisi kuulemma ollut hyvä saada vielä karabiinin toinen pala. Sitä mulla ei ollut lähettää. Kerron kyllä, jos saavat jonkinmoisen diagnoosin aikaiseksi.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 00:18 
Offline

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2003 02:00
Posts: 27
Faktat ovat faktoja vain tulkittuina. Eli terveisiä Premanasta Campin testilaboratoriosta. Lähettivät mulle cd:n, jossa on neljä erilaista sulkurenkaan murtumistestiä.

Ensimmäisessä testissä tuhotaan jatko, joka koostuu kahdesta uudesta suoraporttisesta sulkurenkaasta (Campin Steelkar, koodi 1162,01) ja nauhalenkistä (Campin Sling Stop Express, koodi 1043,10). Karabiinien portit ovat kiinni. Tuloksena slingi repeää 19.56 kN:ssa alemman sulkkarin ympäriltä ja sulkurenkaat deformoituvat, mutta eivät murru. Usein nauhalenkin lupaavat 22 kN.

Toinen testi vastaa edellistä mutta sillä erotuksella, että portit ovat auki. Sulkurengas murtuu 8.76 kN:ssa varresta sulkkarin kapeasta päästä suunnilleen portin kiinnittymiskohtaa vastapäätä.

Kolmas testi vastaa toista sulkurenkaineen ja aukinaisine portteineen, mutta nauhalenkkinä on nyt Campin Express Dyneema (koodi 1282,10). Sulkkari murtuu edellistä vastaavalla tavalla, tällä kertaa kuitenkin 9.14 kN:ssa. Sekä toisessa että kolmannessa testissä sulkkari murtuu aiemmin kuin Campin antama merkintä 10 kN lupaa.

Neljännessä testissä sulkurengasta kuormitetaan nokasta. Lisäksi portti on auki. Sulkkari murtuu varresta leveämmästä päästään 3.88 kN:ssa. Murtuman sijainti ja muoto vastaavat hyvin pitkälti oman hajonneen Steelkarini murtumaa.

Edellisestä on kai pääteltävä, että oma sulkkarini oli porahaan lehdessä kaikkea muuta kuin oikeassa asennossa. Herra A. Codegan kanssa tuumailimme hypoteesiksi, että köyden liike olisi muuttanut sulkurenkaan asennon porahaan lehdessä ja että vibraatio tms. olisi avannut portin, joka kenties laiskistuneena ei olisi enää sulkeutunut kokonaan. Steelkarien porteilla oli taipumus elinkaarensa tietyssä vaiheessa jäädä hitaasti suljettuina muutaman millin auki. Otin tavaksi käsitellä ne aika ajoin silikonisumutteella. Ylemmät sulkurenkaat jatkoissani eivät olleet paikalleen kiinnitetyt stringeillä, mikä mahdollistaa jonkin verran sulkkarien pyörimistä. Joidenkin valmistajien valmiissa jatkoissa – mm. Simond ja Singing Rock – ylempi sulkkari on sekin paikalleen fiksattu.

Tein omat testini heiluttelemalla Campin jatkoa moneen eri asentoon kiristetyssä porahaan lehdessä. Vähän lehden asennosta riippuen sain sulkkarin jäämään niin, että se riippui nokastaan. Sulkkari asettui outoon asentoonsa siitä tasaisesta kohdasta, joka on portille tarkoitetun loven yläpuolella (http://www.camp.it/uksetcatalogo.htm). Monista sulkurenkaista tämä muoto puuttuu nykyään kokonaan. Ruuvaamalla porahaan täysin väärin päin sain heilautettua sulkkarin myös sellaiseen asentoon, jossa se riippui nokastaan ja painoi porttiaan auki mutteria vasten. Jo hieman vinkkeli porahaan kiristys näytti mahdollistavan sulkkarin epätyydyttävän asennon. Tuuria tuo silti vaati, mutta voittaahan joku joskus lotossakin.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 08:02 
perttu wrote:
Toinen testi vastaa edellistä mutta sillä erotuksella, että portit ovat auki. Sulkurengas murtuu 8.76 kN:ssa varresta sulkkarin kapeasta päästä suunnilleen portin kiinnittymiskohtaa vastapäätä.

Kolmas testi vastaa toista sulkurenkaineen ja aukinaisine portteineen, mutta nauhalenkkinä on nyt Campin Express Dyneema (koodi 1282,10). Sulkkari murtuu edellistä vastaavalla tavalla, tällä kertaa kuitenkin 9.14 kN:ssa. Sekä toisessa että kolmannessa testissä sulkkari murtuu aiemmin kuin Campin antama merkintä 10 kN lupaa.

Sama tulos pätee lähestulkoon jokaiseen jokaiseen sulkkariin, joka on reitattu kolme sigmalla. Dyneema vastaa tavallista slingiä enemmän sitä vehjettä, millä noita vedellään rikki.

perttu wrote:
Steelkarien porteilla oli taipumus elinkaarensa tietyssä vaiheessa jäädä hitaasti suljettuina muutaman millin auki. Otin tavaksi käsitellä ne aika ajoin silikonisumutteella.

Osa tosta voi olla portin geometriastakin johtuvaa. Mulla on sellanen tapa uutta rojua ostaessa, että tuijotan aika paljon portin geometriaa ja sen jälkeen luvattuja lukuja.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 13:27 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2003 02:00
Posts: 368
Vähän topicista poiketen, mutta mua kiinnostaisi testailla varmistusten pitävyyttä, joten kysymys kuuluupi että jos tiputan vaikka 20 kg painon 5 metriä varmistuksen yläpuolelta staattiseen köyteen minkälaista "oikeaa" pudotusta se vastaa?(varmaan aika kovaa fallfactor>2) miettikääpä tätä insinöörit ja kertokaa mulle niin meen paiskomaan painoja kalliolita alas RP-kiiloihin. :wink:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 14:54 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 02:00
Posts: 335
Location: Hki/Tku
Petzlin sivuilla oli joskus "putoamissimulaattori" johon pystyi määrittelemään mm. pudotuskorkeuksia, kiipeilijän painoa, varmistustapaa, jne asioita. Se taisi jopa kertoa maksimivoimat eri varmistuspisteissä. Katsohan tuolta sivuilta jos se olisi vielä siellä..


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 15:37 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2002 02:00
Posts: 132
Location: Helsinki
Vaatinee aikamoisia erikoisjärjestelyjä saada fallfactor > 2 onnistumaan.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 18:03 
Offline

Joined: Fri May 10, 2002 02:00
Posts: 1001
Location: Imatra
eipä taida yli kakkosia tulla ku via ferratalla...(?)


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC + 2 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group