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Slouppi • View topic - Onnettomuus haviksella

Slouppi

Rock climbing and Bouldering in Finland
It is currently Fri Sep 21, 2018 02:26

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 Post subject: Onnettomuus haviksella
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 18:49 
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Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 10:29
Posts: 61
Location: Lahti... Chicago
toivottavasti ei käynyt pahemmin kuin ne kylkiluut.

http://www.ess.fi/?article=193371


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 18:53 
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Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 08:37
Posts: 33
Location: Espoo
Toivottavasti ei käynyt pahemmin. Onnettomuuden vajavainen kuvaus ihmetyttää. Pettikö yläankkuri vai mikä tässä tapauksessa olisi tuo kiinnityslenkki?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 18:59 
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Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 10:29
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Location: Lahti... Chicago
MikaK wrote:
Pettikö yläankkuri vai mikä tässä tapauksessa olisi tuo kiinnityslenkki?



sitä itsekin mietin mutta en ala arvailemaan että mitä tapahtui..


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 19:35 
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Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 10:29
Posts: 116
Location: l.a.hest
Ei haviksella kyllä yläankkureita 10 metrissä ole.
jospa vaikka kiila korkannut ulos.
Toivotaan ettei käynyt pahemmin kuin mitä lehdessä mainittiin.


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 Post subject: Onnettomuus haviksella
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 19:36 
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Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 13:41
Posts: 1
Location: Helsinki
Ainakin poliisin tiedotteen mukaan kaveri oli ollut keräämässä klippejä pois kun yksi "niistä" (ilmeisesti siis klippi) petti. Seurueen muiden jäsenien mukaan pudonnut oli kokenut kiipeilijä.

Mut kyllähän järjen mukaan yläankkurissa olisi pitänyt vielä olla kiinni, jos klippejä välistä pois ottaa. Ellei sitten ollut tulossa alaspäin ja ottanut riskillä. 10 metrin pudotus voi olla just selitettävissä, jos eka klippaus on ollut korkealla (osa pulteistahan siellä on vasta 3 metrin jälkeen) ja sitten löysää köydessä.

Ja jos on puhtaasti luonnollisilla mennyt, niin varomaton on ollut, jos ei yläankkurissa ole ollut kiinni.

Mutta ei tiedotteesta yksiselitteisesti selvää saa, mitä on käynyt.

T. Toimittaja töissä...


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 Post subject: Accident in Havukallio
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 19:54 
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Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 13:19
Posts: 27
I was climbing in another sector at Havukallio when the accident took place and helped the emergency services. I didn't know the people involved and perhaps they will be able to comment about the accident itself. I abseiled down the route to clean in and inspect the cause and will offer a factual account of my observations. I hope that the person involved makes a speedy recovery and thank the emergency services for their quick arrival.

The person involved was climbing one of the sports routes, he didn't reach the anchor and lowered off from the last bolt. There was an in-situ maillon (mailonen) there, which he lowered from. He removed the quickdraw under that and then the maillon broke, which dropped him to the ground.

The maillon involved was a 5mm Maillon rapide. You can see an image of it here http://desert-climbing.blogspot.com/

The working load of this maillon should have been 250 kg and the breaking limit should have been 1250 kg. But, and this is a big issue I would be fairly sure that the gate was open at the time of failure. I say this because the screw threads are perfectly intact and not in the slightest part damaged as though they had been ripped apart. No "gate open" strength is given for such maillons and according to one source who worked in the test lab for Lyon (the UK importer of maillons), "Maillons don't have a gate open strength marked - as is already mentioned, they must be done up. Cavers, who use maillons a lot, know that just bodyweight can deform them if not screwed fully closed. In fact, the threads and barrel are lined up by hand during manufacture, by bending the frame."

It could be that the action of the rope running through the maillon opened the gate. This is easier to imagine if many people had lowered off the same maillon.

Other important points to remember are that when someone is lowered the force generated on the anchor is twice that if they were abseiling due to the pulley effect. This force is further increased if someone swings about e.g. to collect quickdraws. As mentioned a 5mm maillon has a working load of 250kg http://www.peguet.fr/gb/produits/grande_ouverture.html
If you use a larger diameter maillon you increase this margin dramatically.

I would say to others - to avoid this happening again -

If you have to use a maillon then make absolutely sure that the gate is firmly closed and that the rope can not open it.
On Finnish routes I suggest lowering off normal gear e.g. a screwgate or quickdraw, walking to the top of the cliff and collecting the rest of the gear by abseil.
If you remove the runner directly below the one that you are lowering from, you leave yourself no safety margin in the case of that runner failing.
The larger maillon you have, the bigger the safety margin is in terms of strength and in terms of size. The latter may be important as the rope would be likely run clear of the gate, meaning that it would be incredibly unlikely that the rope would open the gate.

I'm sure that the use of such maillons is widespread in Finland. There was a 5mm maillon attached to one of the two anchor bolts. This was firmly shut and I couldn't move the gate at all. It is common to glue in-situ maillons shut and this could be what has happened to the top one. I hope that people can learn from this and that this never happens again.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 20:56 
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Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 17:46
Posts: 129
Thanks for your account, Tony.

The climber who got hurt is a good friend of mine. I had a chat with him this morning, as well as about 2 hours ago. He is in Töölö hospital and considering his state he is in fairly good spirits.Naturally he´s in bit of pain, as he broke three ribs, fractured one of the bones in his palm, as well as has some damage in his lungs. In the long run he should be quite fine, though. A doctor friend of mine who works in Töölö and knows my friend, visited him twice today and thinks that he´ll be on his feet in a couple of days.

The accident happened the way Tony explained. The gate of the maillon must have been open when it failed, there is no way around it. Whether it was open or not when the belayer started lowering the climber is not clear to me either, but I would tend to think that it must have been at least partially closed, as my friend said that he had a look at it, and also thought for a moment whether or not he should be lowered down from it. I don´t know how well he inspected the gate, but I don´t think he would have lowered down from it had it been completely open.

In any case, when the maillon broke, he fell first for some 5 or so meters down on to a rather big ledge, from which Vanha Grant, the route he was climbing actually starts, and then he fell down another 5 or so meters to the ground. He hit the ledge feet first, but did not remember how he hit the ground.

The spot where he fell has some rocks, as well as tree roots, and he hit those, and apparently that is how most of the damage was done.

He was very lucky not hurting himself much worse.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 20:59 
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Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 17:30
Posts: 169
Thanks Tony for the detailed account. Your suggestion that the rope might have opened the maillon sounds plausible, as a) the maillon in your pic clearly is small enough for the rope to directly rub the gate, and b) he was lowering off, which meant the rope ran through the maillon.

It sounds like the accident could have been avoided if the climber had run the rope through the maillon in the opposite direction, i.e. that the rope running through it would tighten the gate instead of opening it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 09:14 
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Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 20:41
Posts: 231
JAB wrote:
It sounds like the accident could have been avoided if the climber had run the rope through the maillon in the opposite direction, i.e. that the rope running through it would tighten the gate instead of opening it.

If a maillon is properly tightened, it doesn't make any difference which direction the rope runs through it. Below is a picture of the broken maillon Tony posted on his blog.

Image

Good to know the climber is recovering!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 09:15 
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Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 13:19
Posts: 27
I'm very glad to hear that the climber is going to be on his feet soon.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 13:48 
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Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 17:30
Posts: 169
SampsaJ wrote:
If a maillon is properly tightened, it doesn't make any difference which direction the rope runs through it.


Does finger tight count as properly tightened?

What maillon was it? A brand name (like a Petzl maillon) or some no-name hardware store maillon?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 15:50 
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Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 20:41
Posts: 231
JAB wrote:
Does finger tight count as properly tightened?

According to the manufacturer a 5mm maillon should be tightened to 0,80 N m. In practical terms this would translate to 408 grams hanging in the end of a weightless 20cm wrench. I made some test (well, I'm an engineer after all) and I think finger tight would be around 0,20 N m. In other words, finger tight is not properly tightened.

If there is something to be learnt from this accident, I would suggest thinking twice before lowering off a single improperly tightened maillon. I think many people will trash their lower off maillons once they hear about this accident.

JAB wrote:
What maillon was it? A brand name (like a Petzl maillon) or some no-name hardware store maillon?

It was a brand name maillon rapide made in France
http://www.ukc2.com/forums/t.php?t=299075

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 16:52 
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Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 02:00
Posts: 65
just an observation from the manufacturers web pages:

http://www.peguet.fr/gb/produits/EPI_in ... rture.html

the ones having EN certification for mountaineering start from 7mm.

o-p


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 17:20 
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Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 20:41
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jeguri wrote:
the ones having EN certification for mountaineering start from 7mm.

On the mountains (e.g. Chamonix) it's not too uncommon to run into 3 or 4 mm maillons. Abseiling can be quite scary sometimes.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 08:16 
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Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 17:46
Posts: 129
I visited my friend at Töölö a few days ago and he was fine. I think he is home by now, and he´ll be recovering more or less 100% in about 2 or so months. He joked about going climbing no later than by midsummer.

I asked him whether he checked the maillon and he said yes. He had a proper look at it and also tried to tighten it by fingers. He is quite strong but still could not tighten it all the way. He was also quite sure that the mailloin was not completely open. Most likely it was about half ways. With this in mind I would think that the theory that the rope may have opened the gate may be right. Of course we cannot find out and be 100% sure about it, but anyways the point is that to avoid similar accidents in the future it is probably best to do what Tony proposed in his post.

Which is this:

If you have to use a maillon then make absolutely sure that the gate is firmly closed and that the rope can not open it.

On Finnish routes I suggest lowering off normal gear e.g. a screwgate or quickdraw, walking to the top of the cliff and collecting the rest of the gear by abseil.

If you remove the runner directly below the one that you are lowering from, you leave yourself no safety margin in the case of that runner failing.

The larger maillon you have, the bigger the safety margin is in terms of strength and in terms of size. The latter may be important as the rope would be likely run clear of the gate, meaning that it would be incredibly unlikely that the rope would open the gate.


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