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Slouppi • View topic - Message: dubious behaviour by a finnish team on Blåmann

Slouppi

Rock climbing and Bouldering in Finland
It is currently Mon Nov 19, 2018 02:59

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 Post subject: Message: dubious behaviour by a finnish team on Blåmann
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 13:49 
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Posts: 15
Firstly, congrats to the finnish team that made the first known repetition of Disco 2000 on Blåmann this summer. Good effort!

And also thanks to the finns who contributed to the local climbing scene by putting up Lost&Found a few years back.

That said, we feel the need to comment a finnish team climbing on Ultima Thule earlier this summer. These climbers were observed using hammer and nails on the first pitch. Please avoid this in the future, as this has become the most classic free route on the wall. This pitch can easily be done clean! In general, try to stay away from the hammer as much as you can when climbing on Kvaløya (as mentioned in the Ethics chapter on page 18 in the guidebook).

Another thing these climbers did was setting up a portaledge 5 meters under the belay of the first pitch. You are of course free to do this, but it actually prevented two other teams from free climbing this pitch. If the intention was just to practice the use of portaledge, there are better places for that. Putting it up 40 meters off the ground on a "big wall" is a bit unnecessary.

In addition, one of you guys took a dump from the ledge, leaving a big splash of turd on the slab where the route starts. Again, quite unnecessary. At that time of the season, this is also the area were people fill up there water bottles...

If these observations are anyhow incorrect, we apologize, but with the increased amount of climbers on Kvaløya in recent years, we feel a responsibility to spread some awareness. We are really happy when climbers from all over the world come here to share our playground, but please, let's all think twice about our climbing habits and how they affect other people. Then just rock on!

Best regards,
Øystein Andresen (future finn) and Thomas Meling (leader of Tromsø Klatreklubb)


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 Post subject: Re: Message: dubious behaviour by a finnish team on Blåmann
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 14:07 
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ohhh, very good points mr.oystein,
feel so shamed now for being a finn :oops:

well, did they? get to the top?


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 Post subject: Re: Message: dubious behaviour by a finnish team on Blåmann
PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 07:22 
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Good post, Øystein. Hopefully these guys will have more common sense in the future.


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 Post subject: Re: Message: dubious behaviour by a finnish team on Blåmann
PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 22:21 
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Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 20:41
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In recent years the Blåmannen seems to have become a one-day free climbing playground for faster and more experienced parties. But lets remember not everyone is as experienced. Relatively speaking the wall is not that great but it seems people commonly bivy at least once.

You guys have any recommendations for portaledge sites for future parties? Apparently the first pitch is a bad call but which are the good sites? If you do it off season the traffic is not a problem, of course, but on a sunny summer day?

Having a dump should be done with a tube like in Yosemite if you go heavy and slow.

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 Post subject: Re: Message: dubious behaviour by a finnish team on Blåmann
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 14:35 
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Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2002 02:00
Posts: 55
Location: Helsinki
I highly appreciate the great climbing you have over there. We are lucky it's pretty close by and I wouldn't want locals or other fellow climbers to have a grudge when we turn up. Neither do I justify taking dumps on routes, but I would like to say a few words of defense on behalf of these unknown Finns.

I'm pretty sure that the latest free ascents or the meaning of these ascents have not reached many bigwallers Finnish or not. As long as the guide and topos available in the web state that the first (and actually every) pitch has an A instead of a C grade, you will probably see teams who know no better waving a hammer in the future as well. To at least make your argument more logical and to perhaps ease things in the long run, you might want to update route descriptions and topos on Norwegian sites e.g. Kvaloya Archives, Tindeklub etc. Many do a bit of googling prior to their ascent.
You might even want to combine this info with some other basic Blåmann info on a notice on the approach?

As for hanging the ledge on a route, it might be inconvenient for an "in a day" or "in a push" team, but it is part of bigwall climbing as you well know. First come first served prevails here too. I must admit that hanging the ledge at 40m sounds like an interesting strategy, that might have something to do with comfortable belaying, hauling the ledge while it's set up or inadequate knowledge of techniques like short-fixing or self belay, but in the end of the day passing is part of fast climbing on bigwalls. Of course it requires skill to do this efficiently, it might be hard without cooperation, but impossible if you don't even ask for permission in the first place. If someone had got a negative response, a complaint here would make more sense.


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 Post subject: Re: Message: dubious behaviour by a finnish team on Blåmann
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 16:54 
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Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 20:41
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Eetu wrote:
To at least make your argument more logical and to perhaps ease things in the long run, you might want to update route descriptions and topos on Norwegian sites e.g. Kvaloya Archives, Tindeklub etc.


Good point Eetu. Maybe it's time to update the NTK route pages with C and free grades instead of the A's? It seems Mårten doesn't update his Kvaloya Archieves anymore.

I just checked and there's not too much info here regarding modern style. It says more like "nail hard and bivy at least once". And as long as it says so people do it so.
http://www.ntk.no/en/routes/results/tax ... A1729%2C52

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 Post subject: Re: Message: dubious behaviour by a finnish team on Blåmann
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 18:52 
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Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2002 02:00
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Location: Vantaa
SampsaJ wrote:
It seems Mårten doesn't update his Kvaloya Archieves anymore.


If I remember correctly, they actually took a lot of info off the net after the guidebook came out for understandable reasons. Stuff I printed out for Baugen when I was there maybe 5 years back is no longer on the net. So perhaps there isn't an obvious place for up dated info like this to go.

Having said that, I would hope that most climbers now know that hammerless ascents are generally considered the best way to go if you are going to aid. I've seen portaledges in place 15 mtrs up Olhava, so 40 metres up Blåmann is positively high in comparison! ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Message: dubious behaviour by a finnish team on Blåmann
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 09:13 
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Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2002 02:00
Posts: 276
Direct quote from Dave MacLeod:

"I have a feeling that despite the unpredictable Norwegian climate, Blamman will be one of the most famous walls in europe for hard granite big wall climbs in the coming years. It's a very accessible place and yet really impressive with some of the best granite you'll find anywhere."

It might make sense to start prepare for this during this coming winter... Maybe updating topo and writing down good instructions thus directing future crowds to behave better on the B-mannen?

Öystein, I am not being sarcastic or nasty when I see in my chrystal ball big groups on wannabe-Brits followind Dave's footsteps taking dumps and tossing empty bear cans all over the vulnerable arctic landscape.

Anyways, congrats to mr. MacLeod for very impressive FA. And good luck for Tromsö-climbers dealing with the crowd!


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 Post subject: Re: Message: dubious behaviour by a finnish team on Blåmann
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 09:33 
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Location: Vantaa
MRoutsi wrote:
I see in my chrystal ball big groups on wannabe-Brits followind Dave's footsteps taking dumps and tossing empty bear cans all over the vulnerable arctic landscape.


What is a "wannabe-Brit"? A Frenchman who wishes he was British or a Brit who wants to be Dave Macleod? Either way, you seem to be suggesting Macleod's footprints includes taking dumps on the wall and tossing empty beer cans around. Considering a) Dave has a very good reputation already and b) with Hot-Aches was there filming for Gore Tex who sponsored the trip, it seems totally unlikely.


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 Post subject: Re: Message: dubious behaviour by a finnish team on Blåmann
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:21 
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Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2002 02:00
Posts: 276
Sorry about incorrect expressions.

Wannabes (Brits) = those present in Chamonix, Rjukan or, say, in Spanish climbing destinations. They are many in numbers, they make some noise and leave some rubbish behind. They do behave ok, problem is that they are just so many. Add to this Germans and some Swedes, and nice destination turns into.... not so nice. Just remembering Kalymnos 10 years back, or Kvalöya in the 90's....

If they follow DMC's footprints, like they have followed other top Britons' footsteps to Cham, Lofoten, Rjukan etc., there will be organized and/or guided trips to Blåmannen in some stage, and that will certainly cause piles of human waste and beer cans to be found in B-mannen basecamp. Unless locals take action and provide beta and toilets for tourists...

Nothing personal Toby, it's nice to see your little patriot rose his head up...;)


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 Post subject: Re: Message: dubious behaviour by a finnish team on Blåmann
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:23 
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One more thing... Of course Dave has not taken any dumps or left cans anywhere, that sentence was just badly composed!


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 Post subject: Re: Message: dubious behaviour by a finnish team on Blåmann
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:28 
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Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2003 02:00
Posts: 368
Good, now this conversation is starting to get somewhere.. :) , some action please, it is a rainy day out here..


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 Post subject: Re: Message: dubious behaviour by a finnish team on Blåmann
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:35 
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Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2002 02:00
Posts: 216
Location: Vantaa
MRoutsi wrote:
Nothing personal Toby, it's nice to see your little patriot rose his head up...;)


The UK is rubbish for all sorts of reasons, but on this particular issue, I actually think it is better than some other countries. Fully accept there are just lots more British climbers than from other smaller countries, but actually littering isn't too much of problem in UK climbing areas (it is in towns). I think generally British climbers are pretty good at NOT littering. I've actually been pissed off this summer at having to pick up cigarette butts and finger tape along with other trash at Finnish crags - (Luhti and Myllis in particular). I've never noticed litter being much of a problem before at Finnish crags, so this definitely climbing-related rubbish stood out.

I've never noticed crap being a problem at Finnish crags, so this report from Kvaløya is a shame - but whilst kayaking this summer I've been disgusted by people shitting all over the place on islands: http://lightfromthenorth.blogspot.com/2 ... adise.html and sad to report I found exactly the same on a couple of small islands on Lohjanjärvi last weekend. Like Sampsa said, on a big wall surely wag-bags are the way to go, and when out camping, burying it is just common decency.


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 Post subject: Re: Message: dubious behaviour by a finnish team on Blåmann
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:40 
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Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2002 02:00
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I agree with you, Toby, Britons are certainly NOT the worst folks around when it comes to littering etc. Finns are at least as bad, as this Kvallöya episode proofs.

My point was (is) that regardless their nationalities more people equals more problems in areas such as Kvallöya - as is the case in crags in Finland or Kalymnos or Yosemite as well.

Sorry about putting your fellow Brits in bad light, it was not my intention.


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 Post subject: Re: Message: dubious behaviour by a finnish team on Blåmann
PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 14:31 
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Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2002 02:00
Posts: 15
SampsaJ wrote:

You guys have any recommendations for portaledge sites for future parties? Apparently the first pitch is a bad call but which are the good sites? If you do it off season the traffic is not a problem, of course, but on a sunny summer day?


All the belays are good places for a portaledge, even B1. The problem here was that the ledge was set up way below B1. If you put the ledge at the normal belay points there is always a way for faster parties to pass. However, normal strategy for slower parties is usually to fix the first two pitches before leaving ground.


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