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Slouppi • View topic - Use of liquid chalk/resin. Good or bad?

Slouppi

Rock climbing and Bouldering in Finland
It is currently Fri Nov 16, 2018 03:46

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2002 08:27 
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A certain distributor of climbing related equipment in Finland has asked Summit if we are interested to sell 'liquid chalk'. This seems to be a suspension of chalk and 'rosin' in some sort of perfumed liquid (believe it ot not) that you spread on your hands and allow to dry. It seems to stay for some time so you dont need to refresh it so often. I have an idea from somewhere that this 'rosin' stuff is not good for the rock in that it builds up on the rock surface and, unlike chalk, its difficult to remove and so causes long-term damage to the holds. Anybody have any knowledge of that or opinions on using this sort of stuff ? If its damaging my first reaction is not to sell it as well as discouraging anybody else from selling it. Opinions anybody?

cheers
Dave

Summit Sports
Turku


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2002 08:48 
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Location: hki
Me no know. Have not been there and did not get the t-shirt - but, I found the web page:

http://www.liquidchalk.com/

More info (promotional) about the subject.

And biased reviews:

http://www.gravityfed.com/reviews/gear/ ... chalk.html

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: iDyno on 2002-04-26 10:13 ]</font>


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2002 09:03 
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Location: Helsinki
If the resin in this stuff is something like POF used in Fontainbleau, it is something I personally think we should avoid. There is already a consensus concerning the use of POF in Finland, it is not tolerated because of the damaging effect it has(anyone tried Science Friction in Appremont without POF? I have, not one pleasant experience), and I think that a new method of using it(POF)doesnt make it better in any way.

The long term effect of POF is a build-up of blackish glassy layer of resin on the holds. This makes the holds extremely slippery, and the only way to make the friction better is to use more POF. Not quite desirable situation, especially when it seems quite impossible to make the holds of Finnish granite glassy with only chalk and rubber?

My thoughts.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2002 09:15 
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Location: Porvoo
Well, the question is if this stuff is worse for the rock than normal block chalk? Especially on the popular boulder places with heavy traffic, even normal chalk tends to "build up" around the holds.

>> So the stone monkeys use those silly toothbrushes to clean up the critical holds. :wink:. I have personally no experience of that new "chalk" (I have seen the bottles and the stuff but not tried it).

Maybe it is worth checking out if the floating chalk has a tendence to "build up" easier on stone, especially on sharp, grimpy granite edges? Can be difficult to verify in a reasonable time, if no info can be found from Internet etc?

Anyway, if the stuff is easy to remove from the holds with a toothbrush, no prolem, but if not, what then...?


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2002 11:31 
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Location: nybacka - uusmäki
How does it differ from Megagrip which is quite widely used?


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2002 13:20 
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Like Jarkko said if it is like Pof it should be avoided because 1) Pof is cheating and more seriously 2) Pof ruins holds.

Having said that Pof is designed to make shoe rubber stick to rock - so something that is meant to keep hands from sweating is likely to be a totally different substance I imagine?

Dave - you're the scientist!


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2002 13:43 
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Quote:
Toby wrote:
1) Pof is cheating


And training is cheating...

Quote:
Having said that Pof is designed to make shoe rubber stick to rock - so something that is meant to keep hands from sweating is likely to be a totally different substance I imagine?


I think the amount you use these megagrip/liquid chalk things is so small compared to the amounts you'd use pof or even chalk on some problems that it wouldn't become a problem. But this is just my totally unscientific reasoning...

Quote:
Dave - you're the scientist!


Jarkko - you're the scientist!


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2002 13:51 
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Correct. This is the reason for my very cautious approach :wink:

Having not seen the product description (or patent) I cant really say what they are made of. Megagrip is mostly chalk and some presumably long-chained alcohol with very little to no resin, and the effect comes from the alcohol which dries the skin.

I think this liquid chalk Dave is talking about is the stuff that was introduced to us in the bouldering champions. The feel of it was quite different from MG, hands get very sticky after using it. It has some chalk and naturally the alcohol, but there is something else in it too. It smells and feels quite like POF after the alcohol has evaporated. Could someone see if the packages have some sort of patent numbers in them, it would clear things up a little?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2002 20:17 
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Hi Dave!

Loong time a go I find this liquid chalk from one fitness gym in Salo. It wasnt good enoug alone for climbing. I put it all over to my hands before climbing and let it dry totally.

During climbing I use normal chalk as normaly but less, just for the finger tips.

Liquid chalk feels like it keeps my palms dry generally all over.

Nice stuff but not MUST stuff (IMHO).

_________________
Juha


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2002 14:26 
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I was wrong. There seems to be some resin in MegaGrip too. It is quite clearly recogniseable from the smell after the alcohol has evaporated. As Samppa said, megagrip is already widely used even in Finland, so it seems that our holds are going to be POFed even if you dont sell the stuff. The amount of resin in these products is quite small though, and it is not whacked on the holds like pof, so the build-up of it would seem to be quite negligible. The number of climbers in Finland is also so small that the possible effects of these products cannot be seen in near future even if we all used them. Could you consult some brits to see if they have seen any adverse effects of these?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2002 15:57 
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Location: Metsola, Kotka
I have used Mega Grip few times and my impression is that it only dries your skin. It does not make your hand sticky anyway. The white surface it makes into your hands is so extremely thin that it's very hard to believe that there will be left any traces of it on the holds. Just a personal opinion...


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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2002 15:53 
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....Thanks for all the comments everybody. I also suspect the resin content of this stuff is pretty low and it is like Megagrip. Despite that, my personal feeling is that we shouldnt be using resin based 'adhesion enhancers' like these. Even if the build up of resin on the holds is slow maybe it can accumulate over the years?

cheers
Dave


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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2002 11:26 
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Actually, we do not have any long term studies or experiences of use of liquid chalk. I reckon that the amount of resin in the liquid chalk is so low, that it does not have any practical effect. And resin does not make the holds more slippery, it does make them more sticky.

The amount of resin or POF used in Fontainebleau area is very large. POF is whacked on the holds with the aid of a towel. Even though POF is used in large amounts, I haven´t myself observed any large gathering of resin layers on the holds in Fontainebleau area. The fact, the holds are glazed and slippery is not probably due to use of resin, but due to enormous number of climbers in the area. You can easily see it, if you are comparing the holds in the first and last problems of a climbing cirquit. The first ones are commonly glazed, but the last ones are not. It is funny, that in Fontainebleau area normal chalk is banned, because they claim that it is plugging the pores of local sandstone. POF is recommended instead.

IMHO the use of liquid chalk may be better both inside and outside, because the amount of the chalk gathering on the holds is much smaller, and the gathering of resin on the holds is rather theoretical. However, perhaps we should first make some practical experiments and compare the use of liquid and powdered chalk in some adjacent bouldering routes.

Itiq

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Itiqtarliq on 2002-05-17 12:28 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Itiqtarliq on 2002-05-17 12:28 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Itiqtarliq on 2002-05-17 12:29 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Itiqtarliq on 2002-05-17 12:30 ]</font>


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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2002 11:46 
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this is all shite, just keep talking. everyone that has actually used supercrimp stuff knows that it makes no harm to the holds, only makes your fingers or palms drier. there seems to be a lively discussion at rakka.net which is the right forum for this topic.


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